The Underlying Premise

do you think the premise is correct? does it make sense to you?

No and Yes

Yes. we should have a high regard for nature and VALUE its bounty. There is more than enough to sustain all that come here, animal, plant, people.
No. Without people our whole system fells. A concern of all should be those places where the population growth is in the negative. Who will work to provide for those who can't work? Who will harvest the food, so on and so on? People make an economy and provide. Nature’s animals and plants will adapt as they have in the past. Will we? To say there are too many people is saying there is a shortage.
Abundance is here if we want it and without destroying anything.

shortage

"To say there are too many people is saying there is a shortage."

But maybe there IS a shortage. Or there WILL be. It is a normal thing that happens in the ecosystems. One species' population grows because there is a lot of food. Then the food is not so plentiful any more. And the species' population decreases. Why is it so unbareable to think that we are a part of this scenario, now that it is so obvious that we are destroying the very base that sustains us? Why do we feel so superior and believe that this doesn't or shouldn't apply to us?

Dick Fischbeck's picture

shortage

Maybe there ISN"T a shortage, just a global mismanagement of life sustaining resources due to an ingnorance about the option for omni-success. Does the world really need to spend a trillion dollars every year on the military?

Here's a chart half way into the page with examples how the money might be better spent.

http://www.eycb.coe.int/compass/en/chapter_5/5_12.html

At least the cold war is over!

The idea is that people are not at the mercy of their environment as are the other species because we alone have the ability to create solutions to problems, even problems we created, by altering our behavior consciencely and intentionally. This is also known as design based on generalized scientific principles.

"The idea is that people are

"The idea is that people are not at the mercy of their environment as are the other species..."

you make it sound as if the other species were SUFFERING because they are part of the environment... (?!)

Dick Fischbeck's picture

shortage

Not at all. I just point out that human's have unique abilities. You asked what-makes-humans-different two posts ago.

I mean animals can migrate to a more suitable location but otherwise what else can they do? For example, they can't grow more food if hungry or dig a well when thirsty.

Additional O&P Implication

On further thought it would seem appropriate to add another item in the implications, a very urgent one, having to do with immediately securing protection of the global biodiversity hot spots. What do you all (participants in the dialogue) think?

global biodiversity hot spots

Michael,

About 10 days ago I posted a 'new topic' on this very point (http://bfi-internal.org/sustainability/node/85) but for some reason the posting received not a single reply or comment. Glad to see we're on the same wavelength. I have copied the posting below for your convenience.
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Submitted by joshua on Fri, 2006-07-21 23:20. Policy & Operational Implications

Re: The Domain of Life, P and OI; "Shape land use patterns to reduce human encroachment on other forms of life" --This does not offer much practical guidance relative to the 6th great extiction crisis that is unfolding on planet earth as we speak.

If current trends continue, one half of all species of life on Earth will be extinct in 100 years. (E.O. Wilson, The Future of Life, p. 102) The rate of extinctions has reached 100 times higher than the natural background rate. Fortunately, scientists and biologists have determined the major causes of the accellerated extiction rates. They have also precisely located 25 critical biodiversity hotspots which still contain upwards of 50 % of the world's remaining land based species.

In these fragile and species rich environments (mostly forested and tropical areas) over 70% of the original vegetation has been removed! The primary causes of bio-diversity loss are:

1. Habitat loss; fragmentation and destruction of rich biotic corridors due to resource/food extraction, farming (land and sea) and development

2.Global Warming; now impacting land and ocean based concentrations of biodiversity at levels perhaps equal to present human land use practices. In addition, hunting of endangered species and spread of invasive species play a significant role in the accelerating loss of biodiversity.

The biodiversity remaining in these hot spots must be preserved and the same goes for the ocean based hotspots.
The P & OI should reflect these scientifically determined priorities.

I suggest something along these lines as revisions/additions:

*Establish economic incentives to prevent further destruction of the world's 25 biodiversity hotspots in order to preserve the earth's remaining variety of species.

*Incorporate the identification, preservation and creation of biotic corridors into all land planning and development.

I think that several other related P & OI could be added here but this would require further research. stay tuned

Resources:
http://www.speciesalliance.org/links.php

Species Alliance is a 501c3 non-profit organization formed in 2005. Its primary undertaking, in association with the California Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco, is a multifaceted, national public education and community outreach campaign designed to increase public awareness of the impending threat to the Earth's life support systems caused by dramatic extinction rates. Through the creation of a documentary film, curriculum, and outreach campaign we aim to raise public awareness of the mass extinction and ignite a sense of empowerment and purpose.

http://chge.med.harvard.edu/publications/index.html#reports

BIODIVERSITY: ITS IMPORTANCE TO HUMAN HEALTH:
A Project of the Center for Health and the Global Environment, Harvard Medical School under the auspices of the World Health Organization (WHO), the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) and the the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)

biodiversity O&P Implication

A good idea.Drowning polar bears due to vanishing ice haunt my imagination(easily because they are so large i suppose).Thankyou for all the thought on sustainability and invitation to take part.

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